What defines a working fire?

[efd184 59]

So let's get to it! Let's hear what everyone thinks is an actual working fire???? Smoldering garbage cans don't count!!!

[shfirefighter 19]

Confirmed 10-75

[Remember585 815]

The opposite of an unemployed one?

[wraftery 1,275]

At the minimum, it's a fire where you pull an 1 3/4 and use it

[nfd2004 750]

At the minimum, it's a fire where you pull an 1 3/4 and use it

I totally agree. That is exactly right, however, on another web site, members would split hairs. "We had a car fully involved in the street". That's a Worker right ? "We pulled an 1 3/4" line and operated it". Some will call it a "working car fire". But it really is just a car fully involved. For many places, that and large rubbish fires were just a routine run. Cars just taken for joy rides and then set on fire. In fact, those 3 am car fires were so fully involved, that it was impossible for the officer to get the license plate number off it. Both front and back melted. Considered just a routine run in those days.

So let me just add to this above quote: "At minimum, it's a fire where you pull an 1 3/4" and use it "WITHIN A BUILDING FIRE". Otherwise it's "Oh we used a 1 3/4 on a dumpster, so that's a Worker, right" ? or, "we had a fire in a pile of rubbish and pulled an 1 3/4 to put it out". "Or we had that working car fire".

I have seen in the past, many who would like to convince others that "they had a worker". I saw that on another site I frequented. There really is a difference between a working fire in a 2 1/2 frame that is totally gutted, and the burned out car on the steet corner.

I think everybody gets the drift.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

What is the difference between a car fire and a working car fire ?

[LTNRFD 266]

I'll throw this into the pot. If you have a grease fire in the oven inside the house, is that a structure fire? It is a fire within the structure, not a "working" structure fire. One more thing. If you respond to an automatic alarm of fire and on arrival you find that it was set off by steam from the shower, who would say it was a malfunction or an activation?

[sfrd18 360]

In my opinion, to echo what everybody else has said, a Working Structure Fire should be classified as a room and contents fire or greater, where at least 1 1 3/4" line was charged and used.

[wraftery 1,275]

I totally agree. That is exactly right, however, on another web site, members would split hairs. "We had a car fully involved in the street". That's a Worker right ? "We pulled an 1 3/4" line and operated it". Some will call it a "working car fire". But it really is just a car fully involved. For many places, that and large rubbish fires were just a routine run. Cars just taken for joy rides and then set on fire. In fact, those 3 am car fires were so fully involved, that it was impossible for the officer to get the license plate number off it. Both front and back melted. Considered just a routine run in those days.

So let me just add to this above quote: "At minimum, it's a fire where you pull an 1 3/4" and use it "WITHIN A BUILDING FIRE". Otherwise it's "Oh we used a 1 3/4 on a dumpster, so that's a Worker, right" ? or, "we had a fire in a pile of rubbish and pulled an 1 3/4 to put it out". "Or we had that working car fire".

I have seen in the past, many who would like to convince others that "they had a worker". I saw that on another site I frequented. There really is a difference between a working fire in a 2 1/2 frame that is totally gutted, and the burned out car on the steet corner.

I think everybody gets the drift.

Right on! There is no such thing as a "working car fire." At most it's a fully involved car fire. Two or three cars really ripping in a shopping center parking lot? Working fire.

Now let's put that fully involved car fire in an underground garage of a 6-story multiple dwelling. You might need a second alarm to evacuate the building because a fire door didn't close. Then, it might take you the rest of your shift just to find the car that's on fire out of a hundred cars. Your TIC helps, but it still takes you a while.

Firefighting is more an art than a science.

[wraftery 1,275]

I'll throw this into the pot. If you have a grease fire in the oven inside the house, is that a structure fire? It is a fire within the structure, not a "working" structure fire. One more thing. If you respond to an automatic alarm of fire and on arrival you find that it was set off by steam from the shower, who would say it was a malfunction or an activation?

LTNRFD, I know for sure that you remember back when the BFIRS used to differentiate between a "Structure Fire" and a "Fire within a structure." A "Structure Fire" had to actually damage the structure.

Then, I guess people wanted to look like they had a lot of fires so they got things changed to "everything's structure fire."

Malfunction/activation for steam from the shower? It's an activation...the detector didn't malfunction, it did what it's supposed to do. The only malfunction in this case is that the installer shouldn't have hung the detector outside the shower door.

A run that was reported as a possible structure fire turns out to be steam from a dryer. The reporting party didn't malfunction. He did what he was supposed to do.

[robert benz 344]

Ok here is an unofficial way of looking at it. Did the reason for you going on the call require you to ventilate smoke. Smoke causes damage which might require the insurance company to shell out $$$$ for soot removal. Or a step in a different direction, how about a bad puffback? CO thru the roof, lots of smoke, an IDLH. You had to mask up to perform you duties. Not a high Five working fire, Hmmm. What does your report state? Ok here is one more, you guys are all using the advancement of a hoseline, how about the truck knocks down the kitchen cabinets that are just taking off, before the line gets stretched. Not a working fire? Why? not big enough?

[JetPhoto 626]

I prefer to classify car fires & dumpster fires as "Active fires" as they are not "working" to destroy lives or property (yes I know some people's including my own vehicle would be substantial property). Add other cars or buildings next to such and you have "exposures" now have the building going you have a "Working Fire".

Have a Chicken coop on fire and you have a "Working Chicken (lol ha ha chuckle chuckle) Coop fire"

JMO

[nfd2004 750]

In my opinion, to echo what everybody else has said, a Working Structure Fire should be classified as a room and contents fire or greater, where at least 1 1 3/4" line was charged and used.

This is what Best describes a WORKING FIRE. First, it's a FIRE, not a motor vehicle accident. Second, it is within a building. Third it requoires at least one line to be stretched and operated. It's not letting some smoke out from food on the stove. It's not steam that set off a smoke detector. it's not a furnace malfunction.

The point of the car fire in the parking garage does change things. A parking garage is considered a building.

I guess my point is, some of us do know what a Real fire is. It's a tough battle. Sometimes its on your hands and knees in high heat trying to find your way around. Sometimes its leaving the firehouse going to a building fire and you can see the night time sky lite up blocks away.

[wraftery 1,275]

Ok here is an unofficial way of looking at it. Did the reason for you going on the call require you to ventilate smoke. Smoke causes damage which might require the insurance company to shell out $$$$ for soot removal. Or a step in a different direction, how about a bad puffback? CO thru the roof, lots of smoke, an IDLH. You had to mask up to perform you duties. Not a high Five working fire, Hmmm. What does your report state? Ok here is one more, you guys are all using the advancement of a hoseline, how about the truck knocks down the kitchen cabinets that are just taking off, before the line gets stretched. Not a working fire? Why? not big enough?

Good examples, Bob. Again, firefighting is an art, not necessarily a science. Analyzing what I used to say on arrival may help to define things. My Chief usually had a good idea of what I had, just by the wording of my arrival report. (Except as a new officer when I said I had a "little worker." On that one, he left his office, drove to the scene, told me he "had never heard of a "little worker," so he thought he would come see one." He just got in his car and left. I never used that term again)

ANYWAY

Ventilating smoke= "using all companies for ventilation"

Big puffback= "all hands operating for a puffback, heavy smoke throughout with high CO readings"

[Reliance 29]

Usually a working fire is: flames coming out of the house thru the roof, around the eaves or thru a broken window from the heat. That could be a house or commercial structure. Such as a call for a car fire but the car is in an enclosed garage.

[Bnechis 3,961]

This is what Best describes a WORKING FIRE. First, it's a FIRE, not a motor vehicle accident. Second, it is within a building......... The point of the car fire in the parking garage does change things. A parking garage is considered a building.

1) So todays MVA/with Fire and 4 DOA's was not a working fire upon arrival, just a car fire?

2) The fire at Yosemity is not within a building, is it not a worker?

3) How about a working fire is one that we either:

a. Need more help or other things to occur (like notifications, etc.) but does not rise to the level of a 2nd alarm.

b. It also means that members arriving have more specific things to do (like making your water supply) than when the 2nd due just pulls up and stands by.

[Westchester 49]

What defines a working fire?

When members of the department show up who you haven't seen in months for training, meetings, etc. and they are the first ones on the rigs and there throwing didicated members off. That's when you know it a working fire.

[Bnechis 3,961]

What defines a working fire?

When members of the department show up who you haven't seen in months for training, meetings, etc. and they are the first ones on the rigs and there throwing didicated members off. That's when you know it a working fire.

I thought that is a call for the "JAWS OF LIFE"

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Jaws of Life..... HURST tool. Like asking for a Coke when they have Pepsi. Need a "HURST" tool over here!!!! When the department uses Holmatro.

Anyway...what's a "fully involved" structure fire. Is the actual structural components of the building involved or is there just a S&^T load of fire showing on arrival? Heavy fire showing? Medium fire showing...I have heard this. I bet you will get a lot of variations on this as well.

Edited September 1, 2013 by spin_the_wheel

[TimesUp 148]

Can some tell me the difference between a "structure fire" and a "working structure fire"

[dave0820 50]

I always thought a "working" fire was one that was growing, on the front side of the fire curve, that will continue to grow and destroy without fire department intervention. A smoldering trash can fire would not be a working fire. A stove fire that is starting to involve the cabinets, is a working fire. a fully involved car fire in the street with no exposure problems would not be a working fire because the fuel is pretty much gone and on the fire curve it's on the downward side, it's no longer working. It's burning it's self out. I may be wrong, but that is the way I understood it, but I don't know it was ever explained to me, and I see by the different answers here many of us never had it explained.

[efd184 59]

What defines a working fire?

When members of the department show up who you haven't seen in months for training, meetings, etc. and they are the first ones on the rigs and there throwing didicated members off. That's when you know it a working fire.

[efd184 59]

No way!!! That really happens? Is it he same guys who say they join the engine company because their scared of heights?

[JetPhoto 626]

What's sad is searching the internet provides no definitive description of a "working fire" just a ton of opinions. So I guess it's whatever you want to define it as.

[Remember585 815]

I've generally used "working" when it relates to a fire that is taking off and on it's way to consuming everything in it's path. I've said "active" when rolling up on a car with just the engine compartment going, or a small semi or mostly contained fire in a building.

Not sure if what I'm transmitting or explaining is right, it's just how I try to decipher what we got.

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

Smoke showing covers it all !

[Bnechis 3,961]

Smoke showing covers it all !

Not really. If I report "Smoke Showing" to 60 Control, they asknowledge it with" "10-4 Smoke Showing"

But if I report "Working Fire" I automatically get a 3rd Engine, FAST, EMS, Chief, and relocating units.

[FirNaTine 370]

What I can't believe is that there is actually a discussion about this. R U effin kidding me? Who the "F" cares fellows call it as you see it!

[antiquefirelt 994]

While we don't use "working fire" as an official term, we've seriously considered using the declaration to fill out the balance of our first alarm. To me the announcement of a working fire means all initial personnel are/will be tasked on arrival and the fire is not going to be a quick knock. Our discussion in house would be to use this to get 1 and 1, less than a full second alarm, but enough to serve as tactical reserve or to stage for other incidents. I guess that's how I understood a declaration of a "working fire to be" something less than a full alarm assignment but standard enough to be predetermined. It appears some FD's use it as a descriptor upon arrival rather than just describing the conditions?

[Westchester 49]

Regarless on how the term is used. You can always tell when it's the big !

1- The Pagers don't work clear and static is heard through at least 3 pages.

2- 60 Control is calling everbody out including my mother.

3- The Fire Chief ( 1st on scene is screaming on the radio, so you can't understand what the hell is going on.

4- It's 3am and 100 degrees and you forgot to wear socks so you boots get stuck on your feet and you get blisters ( Keep a pair on your rack)

5-When volunteers responding in personal vehicles to headquarters or the scene looks like Datona 500 on the road.

6- When the pump operator gets excited and charges the hose while it's still in the hose bed.

7-When you have to go to the bathroom real bad.

8- Your loved one calls you and asks where are you and can you come home NOW.