Newburgher

Date: 07/19/16
Time: 1651hrs
Location: 1st & Dubois St. Box 31-20
District: City of Newburgh
Battalion:
Channel: NFD
Weather: Clear/Warm
Units: NFD Car-4, E1, E3, T1, E10, T10, NFD FI's, Vails Gate (FAST), West Point (Truck), City of Beacon (Truck), Castle Point (Engine), Middle Hope (Truck), Good Will (Engine), New Windsor (Engine), 36-1, C/NPD, MLSS
Writer: BFD1054
Description: 3rd Alarm Structure Fire
1651hrs-NFD Dispatch sounding the alarm of fire, DuBois St IAO of 1st St. Box 31-20
 
1653hrs-Car4 o/s with a 4 story ordinary smoke showing.
 
1654hrs-Command requesting 2nd Alarm, fire in the basement.
 
1655hrs-T1 officer advising heavy fire in the rear.
 
1657hrs-OC911 dispatching 2nd Alarm companies.
 
*3rd Alarm transmitted shortly thereafter.
 
**I apologize for the limited info
 
Links to 1stResponder News;
 
http://www.1strespondernews.com/webpages/news/displaynews.aspx?ID=d8a23abc-b65d-46ca-861a-86ec5b17c066
 
http://www.1strespondernews.com/webpages/news/displaynews.aspx?ID=2281ded2-fcd0-4b85-8b92-4200f7c34b01
 
Link to video from Hudson Valley News Network;
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
Why do we need to change it legally.  Any lay person who hears the title firefighter expects the person to fight fires.  The NFPA does not define exterior firefighters.  With the exception of a few states (NY in that few) these members/personnel are defined as what they are drivers, support ect.  
 

Not a hypothetical.  I can't put hard numbers to it, but it happens in my area at times. 

I have always been under the impression that the term "Firefighter" or "Fire Officer" covers it all. So where should the certifications and qualifications end.
 
Do we break it down to a firefighter who might be qualified to force a door but not open a roof ? Or a guy who is only qualified to be a backup guy on a hose line and not be on the nozzle.
 
Let's not try to fool ourselves. Or worse, the people we are suppose to serve. "Either you're in it or you're not". A fire truck full of "Exterior Firefighters" will do absolutely NO GOOD to the occupant who is unconscious from heat and smoke, lying on their bedroom floor.
 
Wearing a badge and a uniform as an Exterior Firefighter, marching down Main St in the Fourth of July Parade takes a lot of balls. It's a totally false claim trying to be a firefighter marching in the same group. Maybe carrying a banner saying; "Exterior Qualified Only" would give credit to where credit is due. I have no problem with that, if that's the way it's done.
 
 I'm sure we have all gone to fires where the smoke and heat is banked down at the doorway and some guys suddenly "WISH" they were "Exterior Only" firefighters. In those few cases where it has happened, they became "INTERIOR Certified" whether they wanted to or not. That's when they get a real taste of what this "Brotherhood Thing" is really all about.

Of course I've heard the term, my point is that it is a misleading term used so that a department can advertise they have "100 Firefighters" when really there are only 25 are qualified to actually fight a fire.

Consider how it'll be interpreted when a chief sits on a witness stand, testifies under oath that his first due aerial or rescue could't respond because it was three towns away at parade or wet down.  Compare that to the testimony of a chief who's same equipment wasn't available because of the "nobler" reasons.  It's a lot better justification to be unavailable because of training or mutual aid rather than squirting water on the neighbors new rescue truck.  "We couldn't get there to extricate that family from their head on collision, because we were waiting for the trophies be announced at the convention parade!"

This is not a new topic...but it hits close to home.  I live in a 6 story, fire-proof multiple dwelling.  This means...there are no fire escapes.  If a fire were to occur on the 4th, 5th or 6th floors, a resident could potentially be blocked from their front door....the only means of egress.  Whats the other way out?  An aerial ladder.  What good is that aerial ladder when its 20 minutes away at a parade?  Maybe farther!  My local FD has several engines and one, single ladder.  Why does that ladder, the only means of high-rise rescue, EVER leave town?  To win a trophy?  To show off?  To look cool?
 
If there were ever a tragedy, I'd expect those responsible to see criminal charges.
 
Im all for parades.  Im all for tradition.  Our volunteers give time and these kind of events are joyful and proper compensation for dedication.  We should have fun and maintain freindly relationships with neighboring dept's through social activities.
 
However, our first mission is life-safety.  If a town has 3 or 4 engines and 1 ladder....um....the ladder doesnt go to parades.  Smarten up, send an engine.
 
 
There wasnt a need to include a dept. name, because this dept. is not unique.  The list of offenders is long, sadly.

One of the nicest ladder trucks out there. A 2014 Seagrave Marauder II 100' Rearmount. Nice and simple.
 
Wakefield, MA is located just outside of Boston.
 

 

When those soldiers who are standing fast are called to service they will be capable of shooting the enemy because they're all fully trained and qualified.  When these so called "fully trained exterior firefighters are called to push into a dwelling fire, he or she cannot.

Those "support" soldiers still have to qualify on the range, get thru chemical training and then while driving supply trucks they have had to fight, some being killed, other injured and some captured. They are placed in support rolls because that's where they are needed and that's where they will perform best, not because they are unwilling or unable to do it!

If your going to seriously compare numbers, most of the American population lives in urban areas and larger towns served by career or combo departments. Also, I would be willing to bet my next 5 pay checks on it that there are significantly more career firefighters than volunteer. Let me explain that one. You cannot say that a volunteer department in a small town that has 200 members in it, has 200 fire fighters. Stop the interior/exterior nonsense. No career department has an "exterior" FF. If you take the number of volunteer interior FFs and compare it to career, I think you'd be surprised. These towns should come out with the real number of people in their department who can pull you out of your house when it's on fire instead of saying they have hundreds of members "serving" their community . 
I have been an active volunteer FF for a couple of hours now, and a career firefighter for a few minutes. The biggest thing I have noticed is the hate of the volunteer FFs (who work somewhere else like say, FDNY) by Volunteer FFs. That's more of an issue than Union staff VS volunteers. Most likely, sorry but gonna say it, fuled by some level of jealousy . They can be their own worst enemy. 
 
Enjoy your day.
TYFYS

 
I think you and AFS1970 may be missing the point.  
 
I'm not questioning the value or appropriateness of having/using members in a VFD who are not interior qualified for whatever reason.
 
The description used was "fully qualified, completely trained and certified firefighters" which to me would describe members who are interior qualified and exclude members who previously were, but are not currently able to operate interior whether due to age, physical limitation, having a beard or whatever (i.e. not qualified).
 
I was commenting on the thought process that results in a (former) chief officer describing 9 members of the department who are not interior qualified as being fully qualified, completely trained and certified firefighters.
 
I would think that using "fully qualified" to describe a firefighter would imply the ability to perform a vital, core component of the position, like interior operations.
 
Like I asked, when did interior operations become a bonus skill set for firefighters rather than the standard?

So then let's call it what it really is...
 
you ou have Firefighters and you have Firefighter Helpers.
 
i see too many departments that claim how many members they have, but they won't admit to themselves or the public they are sworn to protect when they do not have enough interior "firefighters" to actually do a search or make a real attack.

"We have 31 fully qualified, completely trained and certified firefighters, 22 of which are also interior qualified,” said past assistant chief and 53-year member Bob Harford. "
 
I know there's differences from state to state regarding training and certification, but how can a department claim a member to be a "fully qualified, completely trained and certified" firefighter when that person is not "interior qualified"?
 
When did being "interior qualified" as a firefighter become a bonus skill set rather than the standard? 

Actually, the majority of the population is served by career or mostly career departments.   The majority of the country (land wise) is served by volunteer or mostly volunteer departments.  Volunteerism is declining and many all volunteer departments are now combination and many more probably should be.  
 
Love for the community is not exclusive to the volunteers, which for some reason is something people like you are unable to grasp.
 
What's your stance on volunteer grandstanding? 

FD7807 - I don't have to claim anything......your hero (I mean zero) Fire Chief was the stooge that stood before his personnel and went on a tirade encouraging vandalism and other types of obscene conduct against a Union member. 
 
Care to comment on why a Fire Chief would behave so irrationally or irresponsibly?
 
Is his behavior acceptable to you? Do you find this normal? 
 
Rather than rant about Unions and demonstrate your personal animus or jealousy for career that you could next have, try and build a case to defend the actions of this Chief and his cohorts.
 
This discussion will work far better if you actually stay on the issues that are tangible.
 
Save the Ben Franklin and taxpayer mantra for your next XXXL T-shirt printing or belly-bumping amongst your pals in the beer garden. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
I had to read this a few times. Thought it may be an April Fool's joke, but I realized that was what, eight weeks ago ?
 
Regarding soap boxes, you see an adversary, I see an individual exercising the right to free speech.
 
Taxpayers do have rights, most importantly the right to hear the truth about any manner. Tax savings ? A double edged sword. When was the last time (especially) in Westchester you saw a piece of fire apparatus that wasn't considered a "parade wagon," with all the bells and whistles, often duplicating what already exists in their own dept.
 
Back to the facts. Depts with career staff on duty 24/7/365 have a faster response time than those that don't.  In no way is this the fault of an all volunteer dept., Its just the way it is.
 
I got a job (now retired) and had and still have a life, one beyond my wildest drams, all because of my career as a firefighter. A career I attained by taking a written test with 4,000 to 5,000 other people, then scoring high enough to be in the roughly top 125 who were actually hired. The career academy. which wasn't a "show up and you pass" type of deal. Then 22 years putting up with, for the most part, know it all chiefs, AKA better known as the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. 
 
The situation in Port Chester has nothing to do with tax savings. Nothing. The facts truly spell that out. It's all about jealousy, ego, and, pure lunacy, all on the part of the chiefs of that dept. 

I like how some here will continue to try and sugar-coat what this story is about (very predictable).
 
It is also cute how one clown had such a "strong" defense of his fellow volunteers that he blurted out the "get a life, get a job" rebuttal (that kind of response could get you on the fast track for a Chief's position in Port Chester). 
 
Sorry folks...."it is what it is"..... and that is a poorly orchestrated plan to retaliate against Union firefighters for blowing the whistle about actual problems within someone's little kingdom. 
 
I know that many volunteers have traditionally cherished the "victim role" in the endless career vs. volunteer saga, but this piece of history should not be looked upon for anything more that exactly what it is = textbook anti-union animus . 
 
This story will not have a happy ending for those who had a hand in the release of these firefighters.
 
 

I have never visited this and never will for a few reasons. First when they started selling tickets to walk down a sidewalk and look at a hole, I realized this was going to be more like Disney's 9/11/2001 experience than anything reverent or somber. Second when there was talk of making a statue of the now famous picture of the firefighters raising a flag, but first they had to change the faces to be more inclusive, I realized how many disgusting the agendas were. Then when there was talk of making the museum into the international Islamic friendship center or some other such crap design to promote the revisionist history that 19 guys randomly just all had the same terrible idea at the same time that had nothing to do with anything, that opinion was cemented. Then there was the debate over listing the names by affiliation or not, and almost independent of the opinions of NYPD and FDNY I thought that the approximately 700 workers for Cantor Fitzgerald should be allowed to be remembered next to their coworkers.
 
It just seemed to be that this whole project has been more about erasing memories than preserving them, and that is just plain wrong.

I don't live in Rye Brook, but this would seriously bother me: (From Journal News)
 
"... the village will save $800,000 next year through eliminating base salaries totaling $600,000, as well as associated benefits, overtime and equipment costs, officials said."
 
So for eight full time positions, including benefits and other perks Port Chester is saving $800k by eliminating these positions.
 
"Rye Brook has paid Port Chester just under $1 million a year to staff the Rye Brook firehouse for a 12-hour overnight shift."
 
Okay, I'm not a mathematician, but Rye Brook has been paying Port Chester a million bucks for one half time position and Port Chester has been paying less than a million bucks for eight full-time positions.  So the Rye Brook contract pays for the entire paid Port Chester staff annually, but they still can't keep them on? Port Chester has made an annual profit of $200k thanks to Rye Brook! Anyone else see something wrong here?
 
Like I said in the first sentence, I don't live in Rye Brook, but if I were mayor, now that the contract has been breached I'd be doing the math that Port Chester has now supplied and sue going back to the original date of contract for the total amount they overpaid for the half-time position they were given.  There is obvious fraud here on many levels.  Port Chester is going to end up paying so much more on this one in the end... 

Sorry to hear that a collusion is suspected. How about Rye Brook picking up the eight PCFD firefighters and giving their area 24 hour fire protection for the same or nearly the same million dollars they are now paying Port Chester. 
They could be self sufficient and escape from the annual contract drama.

For the money being spent by Rye Brook they should just hire the 8 and staff 24 / 7 

Keep liking and show appreciation for the people that keep the content on this site going as stated in the first post of this thread! Thanks people!
 
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Rear mount Aerials
Generally less room needed to set up
The stick goes up fast-this is really nice when the person is hanging out the window on arrival.  
 
Tower Ladders
Nice stable platform to work from when opening up cornices and pulling off window bars or HUD windows
Much easier to remove trapped occupants when the angle of the aerial would be extreme or you have elderly or kids
You throw all your stuff in the bucket and ride it up freshly ready to work instead of carrying saw and tools up steep climb to 75' rooftop and then having to cut
The distance between the last axle and rear of the rig make navigating them in tight urban areas nearly impossible.  
 
The single rear axle baker aerielscopes of old were probably one of the most functional firefighting apparatus ever made with their short wheelbase and amazing versatility.  
 
Tiller's deserve a mention for their ability to get into prohibitively tight places and they have a great deal of compartment and ground ladder space.