LayTheLine

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
 
Ironically, I recently had a similar discussion with one of my Lieutenants. I suggested writing up an explanation of the RIT/FAST and posting it on our FB page. This way, members of the public would have an idea of why we "just stand around."

 
ARTICLE: https://medium.com/homeland-security/just-hangin-out-why-do-firefighters-just-stand-around-at-fires-1ebbf31eba6b

Date:5/5/17
Time:02:30
Location:407 Park Ave c/o 7th st
District: Company 3'sfirst due
Battalion:
Channel:154.355 153.445
Weather:cloudy
Units: All 3 fairview companies Cliffside Park Ladder 1 Fast Ridgefield Engine 4
Writer:  vodoly

Description: Called in as a reported working house fire Bergen County communications reporting numerous phone calls for a structure fire http://englewood.dailyvoice.com/police-fire/fire-guts-fairview-home/709723/

Fascinating.
 
 
https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/05/the-sublime-subterranean-cisterns-of-san-francisco/524853/?utm_source=fbb
 
 

These are also common among the historic squares here in Savannah. I also know of one large estate in Bedford that has one.
 

The SFFD has what seems miles of LDH hose stored at the waterfront where the Fireboat is quartered, the play is to have that hose stretched into the city and have the fireboat pump it. Now in 1989 (I think) when the earthquake struck during the World Series, television showed gangs of civilians stretching the LDH hose into the burning areas. The cisterns are a great idea as underground water mains and pump stations become problematic. A company just had to pull the man hole cover and drop in their hard suction and they have access to thousands and thousands of gallons of water.
With hills and  thousands of closely built frame dwellings it would be some battle to save the city in the event of a major earthquake.
 I am sure they have extensive plans to react, legend has it back in 1906 the first fatality of the earthquake was the Chief of Department, when his chimney fell thru his ceiling and killed him in his bed, along with him went his elaborate earthquake plans.

Very good points here as well.  I was basing my response on the fact that I live in a split level home, and my stairs are open to the lower level.  The garage is located right next to the stairs and even if the lower level were not entirely involved, it would still be impinging on the stairs and weakening them significantly.  I remember when I took the Building Construction course, the instructor stated it well; You need to know the building construction and fire behavior in order to get ahead of the fire.  If I were the first arriving officer I would look for a pass door into the lower level, on my house there is one next to the garage doors and one in back of the house as well, but a quick 360 would find that.  I would have sent the line through that door to attack the fire in the garage, clearly the room of origin as you stated.  If I knew for a fact that all the occupants were accounted for, then the attack goes through the basement door and I would see how conditions change before going through the front door on those stairs to check for extension.
Good points.  Just remember, there are a hundred tactics to use and a thousand tools to help us achieve them based on the departments equipment, initial response, conditions on arrival and response area.

This has been a fascinating thread. I've watched the video 4 or 5 times. Many different good points were made. It proves that there is no one perfect way to attack a fire. Here's my idea, which I thought of the first time I saw the video.
 
I would order an 1 3/4 inch stretched to the garage door. I would then order one of the upper panels on the garage door pulled down, probably a halligan & a pike pole would do the trick. I would then direct the hoseline into that opening for 30 seconds to a minute. In the confined space of the garage the fire should get knocked down quickly with the steam generated. I am a firm believer that you need to knock down the main body of fire which is generating the most heat and the most BTU's. The other advantage to this tactic is that the steam will follow the flow pattern of the smoke and hopefully will help stop the hidden fire spread. I wouldn't be too worried about steam generated affecting any victims, because either they got out of the house or are unconscious on a bed or the floor. Any steam that settles to the floor level will be somewhat cooled.
 
After the quick application of water into the garage, I'd wait a minute or two to see what was happening with the fire and smoke. I wouldn't commit anyone yet, but I'd order the hose stretched to the front door and prepare for entry, I would order 2 ladders set up for secondary means of egress, and I'd assign someone to the back of the house to give me a report on what they see.
 
Assuming the heavy fire in the garage was darkened down and the smoke emitting from the house began turning lighter in color, I would then order the line into the front door for fire control & extinguishment while searches and ventilation went on. If things seemed to be going well, I'd then order the garage doors removed to complete fire extinguishment in the garage. 
 
 

This has been a fascinating thread. I've watched the video 4 or 5 times. Many different good points were made. It proves that there is no one perfect way to attack a fire. Here's my idea, which I thought of the first time I saw the video.
 
I would order an 1 3/4 inch stretched to the garage door. I would then order one of the upper panels on the garage door pulled down, probably a halligan & a pike pole would do the trick. I would then direct the hoseline into that opening for 30 seconds to a minute. In the confined space of the garage the fire should get knocked down quickly with the steam generated. I am a firm believer that you need to knock down the main body of fire which is generating the most heat and the most BTU's. The other advantage to this tactic is that the steam will follow the flow pattern of the smoke and hopefully will help stop the hidden fire spread. I wouldn't be too worried about steam generated affecting any victims, because either they got out of the house or are unconscious on a bed or the floor. Any steam that settles to the floor level will be somewhat cooled.
 
After the quick application of water into the garage, I'd wait a minute or two to see what was happening with the fire and smoke. I wouldn't commit anyone yet, but I'd order the hose stretched to the front door and prepare for entry, I would order 2 ladders set up for secondary means of egress, and I'd assign someone to the back of the house to give me a report on what they see.
 
Assuming the heavy fire in the garage was darkened down and the smoke emitting from the house began turning lighter in color, I would then order the line into the front door for fire control & extinguishment while searches and ventilation went on. If things seemed to be going well, I'd then order the garage doors removed to complete fire extinguishment in the garage. 
 
 

This has been a fascinating thread. I've watched the video 4 or 5 times. Many different good points were made. It proves that there is no one perfect way to attack a fire. Here's my idea, which I thought of the first time I saw the video.
 
I would order an 1 3/4 inch stretched to the garage door. I would then order one of the upper panels on the garage door pulled down, probably a halligan & a pike pole would do the trick. I would then direct the hoseline into that opening for 30 seconds to a minute. In the confined space of the garage the fire should get knocked down quickly with the steam generated. I am a firm believer that you need to knock down the main body of fire which is generating the most heat and the most BTU's. The other advantage to this tactic is that the steam will follow the flow pattern of the smoke and hopefully will help stop the hidden fire spread. I wouldn't be too worried about steam generated affecting any victims, because either they got out of the house or are unconscious on a bed or the floor. Any steam that settles to the floor level will be somewhat cooled.
 
After the quick application of water into the garage, I'd wait a minute or two to see what was happening with the fire and smoke. I wouldn't commit anyone yet, but I'd order the hose stretched to the front door and prepare for entry, I would order 2 ladders set up for secondary means of egress, and I'd assign someone to the back of the house to give me a report on what they see.
 
Assuming the heavy fire in the garage was darkened down and the smoke emitting from the house began turning lighter in color, I would then order the line into the front door for fire control & extinguishment while searches and ventilation went on. If things seemed to be going well, I'd then order the garage doors removed to complete fire extinguishment in the garage. 
 
 

I disagree with the conclusion that "the whole lower level is well involved" based on the fire showing from the garage and that the handline should have gone thru the garage first.  If you look at the beginning of the first video, just before and after that engine arrives, there is fire burning around the garage doors, but there is no fire at the front door and no visible fire and limited smoke from the downstairs window to the right.  The whole lower level is clearly not what I'd consider to be "well involved".
 
To me, based on that assessment, the area of origin is more than likely the garage and actual fire does not appear to spread much yet.  Smoke yes, fire not so much.  Conditions on the upper floor seem like they could still be survivable for any occupants (not sure what the occupancy information they had was).  Looking at the videos a few times, it kind of looked like the fire spread to the front door area may have been an exterior spread from the garage rather than the interior burning thru.  While the garage certainly needs addressed, getting thru the garage doors is likely going to take a few minutes to do anything other than flow water from the driveway.
 
As such, my first line would be hitting the visible fire from the garage and then attempting to make entry thru the front door in attempt to cut off the fire spread and protect the stairs for a quick search of the bedrooms over the garage.  As manpower would allow, other personnel would simultaneously get to work on removal of the garage doors while the 2nd line supports that work (Ideally, you create an opening large enough to flow water thru in the one door to hold the fire in check some while working on removal of the other door.).
 
Given how choppy the video editing is, it's hard to get a good sense of the timing of the obvious fire spread that occurs.  So, it's hard to tell for sure if conditions would allow for sustained interior operations, but it might be long enough to at least make a quick search.
 
 

A go-fund me page has been set up, due to this incident -
 
On April 30, Vinny Plotino, a volunteer fire fighter of 24 years was injured in a fire. At 2:14am Vinny responded to an electrical fire located on Bushwick Avenue in Central Islip. While performing his duties, he along with another firefighter fell through the stairs. Vinny suffered second and third degree burns to his neck, hands, leg, and foot. He is currently being very well taken care of at the Suffolk County Volunteer Firefighters Burn Center in Stony Brook. The team of doctors, nurses, and staff have been amazing throughout this difficult time. The love and support he has received from his fellow brothers, friends, and family are very much appreciated. This Go-Fund Me account was created to help Vinny financially while he recovers and gets back to work. He has an amazing son Julian, who many of us know and love. Vinny's number one priority is his son. We do not want Vinny to worry about finances while recovering. Donations will help pay for everyday expenses and bills. In addition, 10% of the total amount received will be donated to The Suffolk County Volunteer Firefighters Burn Center at Stony Brook. Thank you to anyone who is able to contribute and for all the prayers and well wishes.

I just came across this video which could be applicable to this situation. and others similar to this. Using the deck gun offensively to get control of the fire could darken down the fire quickly to make it more manageable with handlines.
 
https://vimeo.com/205474139
 

 
It's hard to say for sure given the limitations of the video, but this incident doesn't appear to be an "A" effort.

This has been a fascinating thread. I've watched the video 4 or 5 times. Many different good points were made. It proves that there is no one perfect way to attack a fire. Here's my idea, which I thought of the first time I saw the video.
 
I would order an 1 3/4 inch stretched to the garage door. I would then order one of the upper panels on the garage door pulled down, probably a halligan & a pike pole would do the trick. I would then direct the hoseline into that opening for 30 seconds to a minute. In the confined space of the garage the fire should get knocked down quickly with the steam generated. I am a firm believer that you need to knock down the main body of fire which is generating the most heat and the most BTU's. The other advantage to this tactic is that the steam will follow the flow pattern of the smoke and hopefully will help stop the hidden fire spread. I wouldn't be too worried about steam generated affecting any victims, because either they got out of the house or are unconscious on a bed or the floor. Any steam that settles to the floor level will be somewhat cooled.
 
After the quick application of water into the garage, I'd wait a minute or two to see what was happening with the fire and smoke. I wouldn't commit anyone yet, but I'd order the hose stretched to the front door and prepare for entry, I would order 2 ladders set up for secondary means of egress, and I'd assign someone to the back of the house to give me a report on what they see.
 
Assuming the heavy fire in the garage was darkened down and the smoke emitting from the house began turning lighter in color, I would then order the line into the front door for fire control & extinguishment while searches and ventilation went on. If things seemed to be going well, I'd then order the garage doors removed to complete fire extinguishment in the garage. 
 
 

dwcfireman - Great posts. Please keep us updated.

 
The plan is to keep the two volunteer fire companies separate, and the two along with the career staff would function as a single department.  Since they already work together on several fronts, like you said these consolidation talks seem to be more of a formality.  It seems to me that they want to create an environment where both Fishers and Victor volunteer organizations would be able to maintain their identities.  But it sounds like the plan is to have the career staff deal with more of the day to day alarms that volunteers tend to have smaller responses for.  I think the wording in the article was off on this, so it may be that the career staff may just be stepping up their non-emergency duties like inspections and fire prevention.
 
On a separate note, and I forgot about this before, is a consolidation that happened in the northeast section of Monroe County in 2004.  The North East Joint Fire District was approved, combining the East Webster Fire District, Penfield North East Fire District, and the Village of Webster Fire Department.  The NEJFD is known as the Webster Fire Department.  [http://www.nejfd.org/content/nejfdhistory/]

Two things jumped out at me in this article. First it seems to be that these two departments have been functioning as one for some time so this may be a matter of formality to combine. I can see good and bad to this, as it seems to include stretching the career staff pretty thin. However if they are responding into that area already, it might reduce response time depending on their deployment. I think it is a good thing that these departments are starting the talks themselves instead of having them forced upon them by the municipalities and having to start from behind the 8 ball.
 
Second was the idea that this would create 3 organizations. Two VFD's and 1 Career staff (article did not call it an FD) that would all essentially work for the same district. So I am not sure this is really all that much of a consolidation, at least not more of one than they already have. Other than management of the career staff (which might become more complicated) I don't see a big change here. Although much depends on who will be responsible for what, such as apparatus, equipment and stations.

 
I know the masses here on EMTBravo love to talk about consolidation, and since I stumbled upon this while reading the news, I figured it could be a fun discussion where consolidation IS moving forward.  So, I'll start us off with some facts and information about the districts.
 
The Village and Town of Victor are located in Ontario County, in the Finger Lakes Region of New York, about a 20 minute drive southeast from downtown Rochester.
 
This article states that on March 20, the joint session of the Village and Town Boards of Victor voted to bring the issue of consolidating the two fire districts, Victor and Fishers, into a single fire district.  Since the two districts are already relying on each other for manpower and equipment, to the point where they purchase equipment together (such as their ATV's), the joint boards have put though the idea to consolidate the districts.  The other reason, in which the article points to, is that a single district would also level out the taxes that property owners are paying (where taxpayers in the Fishers district would see a slight decrease, and Victor would see a slight increase).  Leveling out the tax levy, according to Victor Fire Chief Sean McAdoo, puts more tax burden back onto the taxpayers of the Victor district, as they are currently receiving more services under the current mutual aid and equipment purchasing plans.
 
The Victor Fire Department is based in the heart of the Village of Victor.  The village is tight on space, houses the Victor Central School District, and is heavily congested with traffic along Main Street.  VFD also covers the Victor Fire Protection District, which surrounds the village in the south and west sides of the town.  These areas are generally residential, with multiple subdivisions in the west and some agriculture in the south.  VFD operates with a quint, engine, heavy rescue, brush truck, and two utilities.  The VFD is 100% volunteer staffing.  [http://victorfire.com]
 
The Fishers Fire Department operates out of two stations, covering the north and west sections of the Town of Victor.  Station 1 is in the west side, comprised of mostly residential, some industrial, and agriculture towards the southern end of the district.  Station 1 is also their headquarters, which houses a quint, engine, and heavy rescue.  Station 2 is at the north end, which is a heavy commercial/retail district, including Eastview Mall, the largest shopping center in the Rochester area.  Station 2 houses an engine, brush truck, and two utilities.  The FFD is a combination department with four career firefighters per platoon (four platoons), but relies heavily on volunteers.  I don't know off hand which apparatus they staff, but I believe it is the engine out of Station 1.  I have not talked to anyone within that organization in years, so my knowledge of the career staffing is a little lacking.  The FFD also covers a large section of the NYS Thruway.  [http://www.fishersfd.org]
 
In my honest opinion, the fact that these two districts have already been working together as a single unit through training, response, and equipment purchasing, it makes sense for them to consolidate into a single district.  Although only one of the district's taxpayers would benefit financially, it's better for these two districts to completely join forces to increase the benefit of emergency services to the people they protect.  This has been foreseen by many in the area, and the fact that it may actually become a reality is enlightening.
 
Maybe a trend will start out of this?

A sneak preview....what an awesome truck! Loving the specs and the new solid red paint scheme!
 

 
 
 
 

We never had much in the way of formal daytime drills, but in my old station if there were a bunch of members around during the day it was not unusual to hold a drill. We got a lot of pushback on that from members who worked during the day and felt that they were being denied the "right" to drill so those of us around in the day should not do drill reports or get any kind of credit for doing that drill. This was also briefly a problem when we were a combination department and there were occasional drills during the day for the career staff and any available volunteers. There was a certain volunteer element that felt these were somehow being used to avoid our weekly nighttime drills.
 
I am a fan of drilling in any way possible and favor a combination of day and night drills, whenever possible. I applaud that department for figuring out a way around the problems their membership was having.

As someone who has a full time job on the nightshift  and every weekend this has always been a problem for me. My department's drills are in the evening with no immediate plans to change that. They'd just rather b**** about the guys that don't make it. Best quote I ever read was from this forum. "For a service that requires 24/7 availability it sucks you have to work Monday through Friday 9-5 to be able to attend any trainings". Even state sponsored trainings in my area follow that schedule.

Anytime is a good time to train. 

Seth, my FD rotates drills and truck checks every Sunday (morning) and Monday (evening).
Like many VFD's, we have many members who work shift work. We try to accommodate this by adding weekday drills and truck checks (usually Tuesday or Thursday). It works well for us. Gives everyone a fair chance at keeping fresh on their training and our equipment. 

I came across something pretty interesting at a FD I was at recently.
 
They have a lot of members who work nights and weekends, or have childcare issues that prevent from attending, So each Wednesday, at 9AM, they drill.
 
Pretty cool solution to make sure training is accessible to everybody. Do any other departments do this?