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LineCapt

White Plains Ladder 34 Closed Due To Lack Of Manpower

25 posts in this topic

January is not prime leave time in career Departments , what will they do in July/August ?????

vodoly, storm419 and x635 like this

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 The WPFD currently operates out of 5 Fire Stations, located throughout the city, under the command of a Deputy Chief per shift. The WPFD also operates a frontline fire apparatus fleet of 5 Engines, 3 (Now 2) Ladders, and 1 Rescue,

x635, storm419 and Westfield12 like this

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Don't they man the rescue with the firefighters from the ladder in HQ ?

 

The rank and file need to go door to door and inform the citizens in the L34 response area of what is going on.

x635 likes this

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You'd think with all the development in White Plains, that they would have enough cash to increase FD staffing.

 

What is the staffing on a Ladder truck in White Plains? Wouldn't it make more sense to take the Rescue out of service and cross staff it if needed? But I could see that being exploited by the city to cut staffing on the Rescue.

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Latest Update:

 

 

fdalumnus likes this

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Jersey City been doing brown outs for years usually during the summer 

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How can White Plains maintain a Class 1 ISO rating with staffing issues?

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When Ladder 34 was  a Quint a few years back, did it run as a single company out of the station, or how did that work?

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What years  , I don't remember 34 ever being a Quint

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White Plains Ladder 34

 

Ladder 34 - RETIRED

1995 Ford/Smeal 1250/500/75ft.
Served from 1995-2013

**NEVER RAN AS A QUINT**

Ladder 32 - FORMER

2012 Spartan/Smeal 105ft. - NON - QUINT
Served as Ladder 32 from 2012-2016
Now Serving as Ladder 34

 

x635, dwcfireman and mamaro40 like this

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This was regarding the fire yesterday at the Sports Page Bar:

 

Quote

 

White Plains Professional Fire Fighters - IAFF Local 274

Ladder 34 was in service during the fire, luckily. However soon after the fire Ladder 32 blew a piston, and without another spare truck (TL-6 was using the spar...e) L-34 was reassigned as L-32 and the 34 crew was forced to use a spare engine (E-72) as their responding apparatus. Needless to say they had their hands full yesterday.

 

 

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As a resident of the city, it would be fabulous to have a third ladder company staffed at all times.  Unfortunately, given the times of doing more with less, I don't see it happening on a full time basis.  Having adequately crewed apparatus these days seems to be an anomaly.  Heck, even FDNY only has an extra person on a handful of engines!

 

As a union rep myself, and as a concerned citizen, and as one to have some sort of common sense, I advocate every department to have the proper staffing for what "could happen."  I just don't see it happening as governments continually slash emergency services budgets to fill woeful gaps.  To pay the firefighters you have to cut money from somewhere else or run a deficit, and we all know budgetary deficits are bad.  So where is the money going to come from?  All too often the people siting at the desks crunching numbers forget that there are grants (SAFER is a prime one) that get more people on the rigs to get qualified personnel to the scene of an incident.  It just irks me as a professional in this service and as a citizen that we can't put enough firefighters on the front line!  Yes, we can do the job with three firefighters per rig....But we can do a heck of a lot better with just one more person apparatus.  We can do even more with a whole other truck!

x635 and AFS1970 like this

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Can you find a copy or a link to that story from providence?

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9 hours ago, STAT213 said:

Can you find a copy or a link to that story from providence?

Unfortunately, I have never been able to find it online and have been look for my hard copy for a number of years. I have no idea what I did with it.

x635 likes this

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16 hours ago, Bnechis said:

3) great question, but has anyone considered that the injury rates have exploded as manpower has dropped? What are the medical cost, the OT cost to cover the injured member and the increased pension and disability costs gotten us?

 

4) The University of Rhode Island School of Economics did a study on the Providence FD about 25 years ago and determined that 3 man companies cost more than 4 man companies after one calculated the above injury costs.

 

Barry, I love these two points because one leads to the next.  I remember from my Physiology of Flight class (one of my aviation electives) that it's the same ordeal in the airline industry.  The drop in the number of pilots requires the crews to fly additional legs each day, which leads to fatigue, a lack of spatial orientation, and confusion.  These are the three most common reasons that planes crash/deviate/etc. when the determination is pilot error.  The same is happening to the fire service, where a drop in the number of firefighters is making us fatigued and frustrated.  We end up overwhelmed trying to pick up the slack of not having the extra help on scene, and we get caught up in some sort of incident .

 

But I want to jump back to the OT portion.  When I took my economics classes there were a few points that brought out the fact that in many cases overtime costs are less expensive than hiring additional manpower (this wasn't fire service related, but just a general overlook into budgeting for personnel overhead, as overtime reduces the need to pay for another employee's benefits, healthcare, etc.).  Would paying firefighters overtime to fill a few extra seats during peak hours be effective enough to help mitigate incidents and prevent injuries?  Or do you think it may result in more injuries because firefighters will end up working more hours?  I know it's hard to say one way or the other because every department is different, but I'm just looking to pick peoples' brains to see what you and other may think of adding overtime shifts to help cover the busier hours of the day.

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17 hours ago, dwcfireman said:

 

...Would paying firefighters overtime to fill a few extra seats during peak hours be effective enough to help mitigate incidents and prevent injuries?  Or do you think it may result in more injuries because firefighters will end up working more hours?  I know it's hard to say one way or the other because every department is different, but I'm just looking to pick peoples' brains to see what you and other may think of adding overtime shifts to help cover the busier hours of the day.

 

Peak hours is always going to be a disputed factor. Most of us used some kind of reporting software that can run a report for this. Way back when I was in a VFD one of the career guys did this, figured out what our busiest days were and posted it. He was trying to encourage more volunteers to be in the station on days they were more likely to get calls. Not sure why but we stopped posting the list after a while. At work in Dispatch we used to have a potential drop in manpower at 3AM but that was until they lowered it all the time. This would be the biggest fear of any right thinking union, that management would put more guys on during peaks but at the cost of less guys on during lulls. Then there is the fact of minimum pay. Most city employees in my city get a 4 hour minimum call back. Would the city want to pay this if the peak was less than 4 hours?

I think it is an interesting concept to look at staffing this way, but I would be afraid that the same data could be used to cut positions. I have seen two factions in a debate use the same data to make conflicting suggestions before and it never works out well for the rank and file.

 

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18 hours ago, dwcfireman said:

 

But I want to jump back to the OT portion.  When I took my economics classes there were a few points that brought out the fact that in many cases overtime costs are less expensive than hiring additional manpower (this wasn't fire service related, but just a general overlook into budgeting for personnel overhead, as overtime reduces the need to pay for another employee's benefits, healthcare, etc.).  Would paying firefighters overtime to fill a few extra seats during peak hours be effective enough to help mitigate incidents and prevent injuries?  Or do you think it may result in more injuries because firefighters will end up working more hours?  I know it's hard to say one way or the other because every department is different, but I'm just looking to pick peoples' brains to see what you and other may think of adding overtime shifts to help cover the busier hours of the day.

You have brought up two different issues.

 

1) is it cheaper to use ot? This one varies greatly. What is the union contract require? I have seen some that pay straight time for prescheduled "ot" others pay double time on Sundays and holidays. In NY some retirement tiers require pension payments for ot, not for other tiers. We have also found that seniority has a factor, if the job has mostly Sr members it is cheaper to hire, mostly Jr members and ot is cheaper, so it's fluctuating over time.

 

2) You must define "peak hours". We are busiest during the day, many of these calls are slip and falls, alarms from workers, cooking, showers, changing co batteries, and so on. At night our volume drops dramatically. But the calls are more likely cardiac, respiratory, (I'd call earlier, but didn't want to bother you, so I waited till 2 am), drugs, serious mva's, and most working fires and almost all fatal and serious injury fires.

 

also in some cases the contract requires 10 - 24 hour shifts.

Edited by Bnechis

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