FF1

A traditional fire service squad is a rescue pumper. 

Typically, a fully functional engine company with a tank, pump and full compliment of supply and attack line. In addition, a squad will be equipped with rescue tools, struts, cribbing, ropes/hardware, etc.

Essentially it's an engine that can be detailed as a 2nd rescue if needed.

Anyone wonder, maybe, just maybe its things like this that give the fire service a bad reputation?

A guy in a dinosaur suit, people wearing street clothes riding on the hose-bed and millions of dollars worth of  equipment miles from their districts sitting in the roadway spraying water from their tanks (effectively taking that rig out of service if they needed to respond back to their district).

Not to mention the engine lobbing water through power lines with their deck gun toward the end of this video.

There is no such thing as down the list

There are 300 scores of 100 or better

They are interviewing candidates in the 100 block, but can hire anyone with a score of 100

Rank means nothing. 100 is 100 they can hire #15 or they can hire #299, so long as they have a score of 100

95 and below have a 0% chance to get a call off of this list, there are far too many 100’s to get through before 95s will be reachable 

The situation dictates your actions.

If I had a dollar for every time myself or my crew did something outside the box or not taught in a classroom to help operations, on both the fire and ems sides of the job, I'd be sitting on a nice pile of cash.

Never criticize someone for getting the job done. We don't know the particulars of this. If that was the only viable option, go for it.

Hopefully the NFPA, NIOSH, OSHA and PESH police, who have never been on the line and have never been faced with making a split second, outside the box decision, will not come and arrest the aerial operator.

I think the whole point is that they do not want their current Town of Greenburgh services. 

58 minutes ago, nfdcanman said:

nice to see - hoping they have some requirements and possibly and test!

It would actually be nice to see Ralph Stupple get it, considering the fire district decided to eliminate his position and demote him not too long ago. That would be the stand up thing to do, considering the circumstances.

He is also extremely qualified, after having served as an assistant chief for many many years and serving as a westchester county fire instructor for many years as well.

But hey, what do I know......If you advocate for doing the right thing, you must be the crazy one.

So to summarize,

the municipalities choose to hire ot vs staffing increases to save money on benefits and these guys made upwards of 300k working overtime shifts at a rate that the municipality agreed on in a contract that they signed

they made money for shifts they worked

what's the problem?

Best of luck!

Great fireman, fire officer and fire instructor. He is a wealth of knowledge and has taught me a ton up in Valhalla. 

He's is one of the good guys and they simply do not make em' like Dave Russell anymore.

12 minutes ago, Flashpoint said:

Does anyone know what this specific piece of equipment was? And what was the chemical involved?

E170 with a crew of techs and it was a freon leak

36 minutes ago, commonsensejake said:

FF1,

 

I want to thank you for your view on things.  Until you walk in the shoes of the incident commander you really don't have a clue about the initial size up and consultations that were occurring during the incident in question. 

 

Your view on dispatch and consolidation is not far off, but very naive.  Dispatchers don't decide who responds to any given jurisdiction.  They follow the CAD or pre-established policies for the departments they serve.  There is at least one validated consolidation study available (south of RT 287), however until home rule in NYS is abolished nothing will change.

 

There is a Westchester County Special Operations Task Force that involves 12 career departments, and Hartsdale is one of those member agencies. E170 is an asset that is assigned to Squad 6 and is normally staffed with no less than three hazmat techs.  E170 was sent as a single resource of a larger task force unit and being staffed with four techs could operate safely and as an asset for the IC.  A single member in a command car might have been considered, but obviously the HFD command staff didn't agree. 

 

Mutual aid in the Town of Greenburgh occurs so that adequate personnel arrive on the scene in a timely manner and have the ability to go to work without delay.  If you need more information why not ask the fire chief's directly. Their emails and phone numbers are published. 

 

 

I'm aware of the HAZMAT task force. My question is, was this a task force activation or a special call to the HFD?

As far as the CAD system goes, I'm not stating that the discretion should be placed in the hands of the individual dispatcher, but that there should be a CAD that recommends the closest and most appropriate piece of apparatus that is needed, while also not stripping an entire area of its resources.

I think the task force is a step in the right direction and is a great system that is in place, but it begs the question, why not have 2 task forces 24/7/365..... a north zone and south zone. This would accomplish what the county hazmat team has failed in and also provide an adequately staffed hazmat team for all departments within Westchester county  

I also am aware of the mutual aid policy and response between HFD, GFD and FFD, but it still doesnt change the fact that that district was left without 1 engine and 4 firefighters for an indefinite amount of time yesterday.

I said it before and I'll say it again, the IC made a great call and quickly requested the resources he felt was needed to safely and efficiently mitigate the issue. Kudos to him on that. My concern, In my humble opinion, is that the current system in the county is basically robbing Peter to pay Paul. You take a well trained team and send them to an incident, which led to a safe and efficient mitigation of the problem, but also stripped a district of the same 4 well trained firefighters, along with an engine in the process.

As far as the HFD chief goes, he is empowered by the HFD commissioners to make those calls, for better or worse. Chief Rush is a very well respected an knowledgeable chief, someone who  I respect and is very well respected throughout the county. My concern and opinion is just that, my personal concern that this website facilitates. Its a forum to respectfully discuss the opinions of members of the emergency service community.

In a nutshell, no one did anything malicious or  reckless yesterday. The incident was taken care of safely and efficiently, without injuries, which is a win in my book. I just personally believe that the system is broken in this county. Despite the fact that the incident was properly mitigated, there is no harm in constructively criticizing the county system and discussing/debating how it works. At the very least it shows that members of the emergency service community in ouR county truly cares about whats going on.

Again, this is all constructive and a discussion. I by no means think my opinion is right or wrong....its just my opinion (I try to issue it in a constructive and respectful manor) and I apologize if I have offended anyone.

3 minutes ago, somebuffyguy said:

The Westchester Fire Advisory Board is having a quarterly meeting tonight at 4 Dana Road, Valhalla, NY beginning at 7:30 p.m. I expect to see all you Monday Morning Quarterbacks there ready to explain how you'll fix the entire county fire service like you claim you can on here.

The fire advisory board are the ones who foster the current system. 

I will never see a county fire system in Westchester. Its simply not going to happen.

In regards to the monday morning quarterback comment, I really don't see the need for the negativity. This is a message board for the purpose of discussing things like this and voicing personal opinion. I don't agree with yesterdays events, but you may. There is nothing wrong with that....everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, unfortunately there will always be people like you who wait for an opportunity to post a negative and disrespectful comment on here

2 minutes ago, mfc2257 said:

FF1 while I agree with you that any fire department should be able to provide basic services to their community, like in your example a room and contents fire, but I don't think that HAZMAT qualifies as basic.  It is a specialty response not unlike high angle, swift water, confined space and collapse.  I haven't lived or responded in Westchester in over a decade so I can't speak to what departments are carrying as far as HAZMAT equipment anymore, but if specialized monitoring equipment was needed and Hartsdale was the closest agency who  possessed it, AND they participate in the same mutual aid agreement as the other departments in the county, then they were the most appropriate to respond.

 

It is important to look at the suburban counties of the NY Metro area in context to how fire/rescue/EMS services are provided elsewhere in the country.  There are hundreds of fire departments that don't have ladder trucks because their response area doesn't demand one.  They rely on a neighboring department to provide truck company ops if they are needed.  There are hundreds of departments that don't have rescues because their response area doesn't need one.  They might have a basic set of tool on an engine, truck or support vehicle for a routine door pop but if a significant accident occurs the heavy squad/rescue from a neighboring department would be alerted.... The duplication of resources in the NY Metro with everyone having their own large aerial (mostly towers), a heavy rescue, etc. etc. is actually diluting the talent of firefighters in the county.  There are very few northern Westchester departments during my tenure that did all things well.  Bedford Hills was probably the most well rounded and did a good job of proving suppression, truck company ops, FAST, rescue and water supply.  If you plopped Westchester down in PA, OH, VA, WV, TN, KY, NC, SC the number of specialty apparatus duplication would be cut significantly and you'd see a lot more fire department that just ran as engine companies with truck and rescue services coming from their larger, busier neighbors.  This brings me to another of your comments that with minor modification I 100% agree with...

 

Run cards.... Each department should supply the county with their preference for mutual aid for each foreseeable type of incident up to the 4th alarm.  The dispatching agency (in this case) should indeed have full discretion as to which units are dispatched based on availability, other ongoing incidents and any other mitigating factors unknown to the department that is requesting mutual aid.  It used to drive me bonkers when I'd hear chiefs on the air requesting "an engine from here, and a truck from there".  They should simply have to say "strike the second alarm or give me the next due truck/engine/rescue"  The reason why each department should be able to provide a list of preferences (and that should be all they are...preferences) is due to their knowledge of their district and how individual apparatus from another department would best fit.  For example a box for a particular school may have geographic and structural characteristics that warrant the use of a rear mount tower over a mid mount so if possible the m/a truck dispatched should fit the department preference.

that's why, with the exception of the cities, a county based fire/ems system would solve all of these issues.

13 hours ago, rob zombie said:

 

Im sure HFD will either recoup the cost involved from YHFD or will absorb the costs as part of its budgeted mutual aid expenditures. 

 

My understanding is that the HFD has a proactive automatic/ mutual aid plan in place with several of its neighbor fire districts/ departments. Im sure it's fire protection was not reduced.

 

 

The HFD Capt /YHFD I.C. knew what resourses he needed to mitigate the situation and got them to the incident in a timely manner.

 

 Perhaps unusual but effective.

 

 

 

 

 

I will agree. They definitely provided the properly trained personnel and resources. no arguments here, but again, those trained firefighters and resources are there to protect the residents and visitors of the Hartsdale Fire District, because fire prevention, fire suppression, technical rescue, emergency medical first response and hazardous materials mitigation are basic facets of any fire department.

Yorktown Heights has a duty to their community to be able to provide those essential services when any given incident should occur. If Yorktown Heights or any other fire department (paid, volunteer or career) cannot provide those basic services to their communities, 100% of the time, with properly trained firefighters, then why should they even exist?

The way I see it, YHFD responded to this incident, realized that they couldn't handle it and called for a department that could. 

Does this seem a bit broken to you?

2 hours ago, mreis95 said:

Because they'd be ridiculed by people on this site for not calling a closer department that has the capabilities. 

With all due respect, fire, police and ems are civil servants. Criticism comes with the territory and yes, these departments do need to answer to the general public who they are sworn to serve.

1 hour ago, Morningjoe said:

First, your question could be raised RIGHT NOW about the 2nd alarm in Valhalla.  They skipped over a staffed tower ladder in White Plains and Fairview to call a tower ladder in West Harrison.

 

If you have such an issue that the county team that takes over 40 mins to get out and on location ... And we all know that 2001 responds by himself to check and verify (regardless of what the IC states or requests) and then an unknown response of unknown number and unknown trained personnel respond... Wasn't utilized, call the Assistant Chief of the department and ask him himself.

 

Better yet, because you know exactly who he is, why not ask him face to face of why he made that call, rather than anonymously and blindly question every facet of his decision made yesterday. Figure out exactly why he did, then come back and with facts, explain it to us.

1) the county mutual aid system is broken. No depts should have the right to choose their run cards. 60 control should have full discretion based on available resources and their capabilities. All fires in this county are basically a reunion of the boys club 

2) . The county HAZMAT team, in its current state is a complete waste of space, time and money, I do agree with you on that. It would make more sense for the Grasslands Brigade members to be trained to the tech level and essentially staff that rig (only during work hours, but its a start) when it is called for a response.

3) In regards to the HFD captain / YHFD assistant chief, I do not know this person personally, but its not very hard to figure out, as the names and ranks are readily available on the internet. Again, this response cannot be justified, unless there is a HAZMAT/special ops task force made and this task force is made available for all county departments to utilize.

4) every fire department, career, volunteer and combination should be able to handle a hazmat incident. We all know that very few can, due to lack of trained firefighters and resources, but if a department cannot handle a room and contents fire or a small scale hazmat incident on their own, without calling mutual aid to the scene to mitigate these incidents, they should not exist as a department. Why even bother existing as a department if you must rely on others to do the basic functions of your job?  

5) The events occurring in Valhalla today are just as bad and the same amount of criticism should be given for skipping White Plains and Fairview.

Given that theory, one would think that HFD and their elite HAZMAT team would be dispatched to all incidents across the county....... if you want to use the theory of calling specialized and highly trained members, 

why not call Yonkers? Or FDNY for that matter? It's not all thst much further than Hartsdale.

1 minute ago, INIT915 said:

 

It does seem like this will be hard to justify, barring some compelling reason. 

especially when the county has a HAZMAT team and resources sitting at DES with the special ops chief on call.

I do not live in the Hartsdale Fire District, but if I did, I would be up in arms about this. You pull an engine from service with a crew of firefighters, leaving the district less protected, by 1 engine company and 2-4 firefighters.

There is absolutely no reason for this to happen. 

A HFD captain happens to be the voli assistant chief in Yorktown who requested this department specifically to the scene.

If my taxes were paying for a HFD rig to travel to Yorktown with firefighters, I would not be happy.

-Fuel costs

-OT costs to backfill

-Reduced fire protection to the district, until backfill personnel arrives.......

Wrong on several different levels. 

4 minutes ago, fd2410 said:

 

Are you on the job?

I do not like to post my affiliation on here for the world to see. I do however, like to provide friendly advice and pointers for those looking to achieve their dream of becoming firefighters.

If you would like to send me a "pm" i can answer any questions you may have.

p.s. I did not mean to come across arrogant. I apologize if I did. The point is, the best thing to do is channel all of your energy into putting yourself in the best position to be hired. If you overthink things, it makes you nervous and that does not help matters

2 hours ago, fd2410 said:

Anyone hear anything for departments canvassing for the Spring? There should be a good few places hiring, but since there was no fall class I'm wondering when canvass letters for Spring will be sent out. 

not being arrogant, but what makes you think that there will be a few good places hiring? Retirements are unpredictable. Wait for the call Dont overthink it.

Rather than posting on here.....clean up your resume, take an EMT class, search for other tests to take, stay in great shape...etc  thats the difference between those who get hired and those who dont.

11 hours ago, dodff said:

When do canvas letters usually get sent out for upcoming hires?  Any rumors  on who's planning on hiring ?

Canvas letters get sent out when a dept is considering hiring. Doesn't even guarantee that people will be sent to cpat though. It's only a canvass

typically it's around 2-4 months prior to the start of rookie school, but last year, Peekskill canvassed and sent guys to the cpat with a week or so notice, so anything is possible.

as far as dept rumors go, I haven't heard who's hiring, but Rye, Rye Brook and Mamaroneck Town recently hired 2, 2 and 1 laid off Port Chester firefighters to fill vacancies. Garden City and Long Beach laid off guys have been hired in the past as well. 

Between laid off brothers in need of work and the 300+ 100s or better, there will not be all too much movement on this list.  I'd be surprised if they got through 50 people in 4 years 

1 hour ago, Oaks said:

It's Hartsdale's decision how they spend their 2% money. Not anyone else's.

that's actually false. there are laws that specifically outline how 2% and fundraising money can be spent. 

21 minutes ago, Flashpoint said:

And now the Engines are being auctioned off:

https://www.aarbids.com/servlet/Search.do?auctionId=1932&itemId=22213

That is not engine 58 or 59, which are the career engines. The only engine in this auction is a 1988 spare.

Quote from the action website below

" Village of Port Chester Surplus Vehicle Auction Ending 8/30

Surplus items from Village of Port Chester. Items include 2005 Chevrolet impala, 1999 Lexus GS3, 2000 Cadillac Catera, 1988 Grumman F-10 Fire truck, Mack recycling and garbage truck and more.

Payment is due by Friday, September 2 by 3PM. Invoices will be sent following seller approval.

Pickup must be completed by Wednesday, September 7 at 3PM. 

All lots sold as is, where is. 10% buyer's premium. Payment is in guaranteed funds only which is cash, bank check or money order made out to Absolute Auctions & Realty. Payment can be mailed to Absolute Auction Center, PO Box 1739, 45 South Avenue, Pleasant Valley, NY 12569 via Priority Mail. All vehicles are subject to seller confirmation.

Preview: Preview available by appointment Monday-Friday, call Rocky Morabito at 914-774-8213 to schedule appointment. "

5 minutes ago, Paolo5286 said:

The names on the Westchester County Fire Academy website do not match any names that are on the list for the exam held on March 25, 2015. That would lead me to believe that the canvass letters sent out by Scarsdale would be for the Spring class. CPAT, interview and mental review would be held this fall. 

Am I correct in my thinking?

No. You are wrong in thinking.

that was the class that just graduated.

stop over thinking and stop being a     detective. Wait for the call and do your best 

if you want the job, I mean REALLY WANT the job, stay in shape study all the time, get your EMT and take every test you can (NY, CT) don't put all your eggs in one basket, but if you do everything in your power to prepare and put yourself in the best position you could possibly be in, paired with studying your a** off and taking every exam that is announced within 50 miles of your residence, you will eventually get the nod.

On the contrary, if you take 1 or 2 tests and sit on the list crossing your fingers, then complain when one guy gets sent to the CPAT and you didn't. you may find yourself waiting for a very long time.

At the end of the day, you need to ask yourself "How bad to I really want it?"

If you want it bad enough, you will do everything you can to get this career