EmsFirePolice

This is just a general statement about the fire service but I think this thread touches on it. Whether volunteer or paid, the fire service is suffering from a severe manpower shortage everywhere. Many cities run with barebone minimums due to budget problems and volunteers have trouble recruting due to the two income economy we find ourselves in. 25 years ago, departments would take it as a personal insult if they weren't called to a fire in the next town over. 

If that is all that happened, suspension was not warranted.
 
 

In Memory of Firefighter Louis Valentino, FDNY Rescue 2
 
LODD February 5, 1996
 
Brooklyn Box 3-3-2408 4400 Glenwood Road
FF Valentino made the Supreme Sacrifice while searching for victims.
 
RIP "Da Banger" 6272

Ok guys....point taken...didn't mean to imply abuse...with staffing what it is ,we all need each other...

I never met Dave Russell, but I was a Volunteer firefighter when his father was a Captain in the Fairfield FD. Later he became the Chief of Dept. A Great and respected guy.
 
I later learned that his son had become a firefighter in the FDNY assigned to Eng 62/Lad 32. It was an area that was really picking up in activity, so it was a good area to hang out and buff. One day I decided to stop at that firehouse to introduce myself. I wanted to tell him how I had been a young volunteer firefighter and how his father was very good to all of us. When I stopped to ask if he was working the guys told me: "Oh you mean Rambo" ? I guess he was named after that movie character.

Best of luck!
 
Great fireman, fire officer and fire instructor. He is a wealth of knowledge and has taught me a ton up in Valhalla. 
 
He's is one of the good guys and they simply do not make em' like Dave Russell anymore.

FDVA2573 - I see you're with Montrose VA Fire Dept. Can you please give me a rundown on your department. Apparatus, manning per shift, stations, etc. I've heard of you but never got the rundown on your department. Thanks in advance, LayTheLine

I found the unofficial rundown. They struck alarms quickly:
04:00 2nd Alarm on Arrival
04:05 3rd Alarm
04:26 4th Alarm
 
09:13 Under Control
 
1st:
E312, 309, 310, 306
L75, 72, 71 (Fast)
B2, 1
R1
Squad 11
MSU
Car 6 (fire invest)
 
2nd:
E308, 307
L70
 
3rd:
E314
L73
Car 3 (Asst Chief)
 
4th:
E303, 304, 313
L74
 
Relocations:
New Rochelle E22, L12 to Yonkers Sta 12
Greenville E150 to Yonkers Sta 11
 
***The news report said all on-duty members responded and the math works out. However, I assume Yonkers had some type of callback to cover reserve apparatus for coverage. If not, they only had 2 & 1 covering the city which is highly unlikely***

This is an EXCELLENT idea and an EXCELLENT opportunity.  It's been done in many other places across the country as well.
 
A chance to further your education
A chance to serve this community
A chance to have a place to live at no cost
A chance for those interested in the fire service to continue while going to school
 
A WIN/WIN for ALL. I just wish they had something like this when I was younger.

 
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/politics-on-the-hudson/2017/01/30/ny-seeks-hate-crime-law-attacks-first-responders/97249254/

, Date: 1-31-16
Time: 1205hrs
Location: 203 Mamaroneck Ave C/S Maple Ave
District: White Plains FD
Battalion: 19
Channel: White Plains FD
Weather: 29F, snow
Units:        White Plains FD   Engine 65, Engine 66, Engine 67, Engine 70,  Engine 71, Ladder 32, Tower Ladder 6, Rescue 88, Car 2512 (IC), Car 2513, Car 2514
                 Fairview FD          Engine 175 (Relocate White Plains Station 2), Car 2121
                 Hartsdale FD        Tower Ladder 15 (Relocate White Plains HQ, redirected to the scene), Car 2171
                 Empress EMS       A-1, A-2, Supervisor
                 White Plains PD   Car 9, Car 11, Car 9, ESU Truck 1
                 WCDES                County Car 4
Writer:  x635

Description: Working Fire in a 4 story occupied multiple dwelling (located directly behind a taxpayer) with rear located adjacent to municipal parking lot
 
12:04  Car 2513 reporting smoke showing from the area prior to dispatch, investigating. Dispatch advising receiving multiple calls
 
12:08 Car 2512 on scene smoke showing, working fire on the 4th story of 4 story OMD. Car 2512 requesting 2 additional engines, an additional truck, Rescue 88 be added to the assignment and mutual aid relocate 1 Engine and 1 truck.
 
12:09 Car 2512 requesting Ladder 32 position and set ladder up to the rear of the building, Tower Ladder 6 to take the front of the building and set up. Chief Nichols will have command of the front of the building
 
12:11 Engine 67 has the hydrant at Maple and Waller.
 
12:12 Car 2512 requesting Engine 70 take the attack from the rear of the building
 
12:15 Car 2514 advising he will be covering all other calls within the city
 
12:17 Car 2512 requesting additional Engine (71) and Truck to the scene. Car 2514 stating Ladder 34 is not in service, need firefighters to put it into service. Tower Ladder 15 currently on a relocate at HQ to respond and set up in front of the building.
 
12:18 Car 2512 reporting initial knockdown, 1 line working in the attic area of a 60x100 4 story brick multiple occupancy,  still have fire and smoke showing from the rear, exposure #3one company working on the roof, one Ladder set up in the front and one in the rear, second line being placed into service, independent hydrant secured
 
14:30 Fairview Engine 175 released from standby, Hartsdale Tower Ladder 15 in service from the scene and returning
 
Notes: Ladder 34 out of service due to lack of manpower

 

I have a different spin on this incident.  Lets forget who called who   and I am asking this of anyone at the scene,  what did you do?  Was it readily obvious that it was refrigerant that was leaking,  or had already leaked (puddle on the floor),  was the area metered by a 3 or 4 gas meter prior to hfd arrival?  and what were the results of that.  (decreased o2 levels), was the erg book used asap?  what did the HFD meters tell you when they were used?  And what did you do to mitigate the incident?  Lets learn from a haz-mat call   thanks. 

Anyone has a rundown on this? I would think Yonkers could fill a 4th alarm staff with their on-duty crew, but that would strip the city (as the quote says).  But any rundown on the coverage units?

Date: 01/31/17
Time: 0620hrs (approx)
Location: 3199 Albany Post Rd - Westchester Industrial Complex
District: Buchanan 
Battalion: 10
Channel: 
Weather: Clear/cold
Units: Buchanan, Montrose (TL8), Verplanck (E128), Montrose VAFD (FAST), Croton, Batt-17, others
Writer:  BFD1054
Description: Working Fire in a large industrial complex 
0645hrs-Car 2552 advising they've located the seat of the fire, working on extinguishment, holding all units. Requesting the rehab unit from Peekskill EMS.
 
0655hrs-Car 2552 advising fire knocked down, extensive overhaul, holding all units. 
 
0704hrs-C&O Zone-4 paged out for the response.
 
0714hrs-Battalion-17 advising situation under control, Command releasing Montrose VA FAST.
 
0743hrs-Command releasing the Verplanck Engine and Montrose Truck.
 
0746hrs-Peekskill EMS 7513 and 7506 (Rehab) in service.
 
*I literally drove past this coming into work, so I have limited info.

 
ALL of Westchester County, paid and volunteer, has serious issues. 

 
FULL ARTICLE:
http://www.harrisonreview.com/lead-stories/fire-district-2-to-hold-80k-referendum-on-feb-7/ 

From the Rye City Review:
 
FULL ARTICLE: http://www.ryecityreview.com/news/fire-department-ordered-20-violations/

Congrats! Very nice tribute over the air!
 
 
 

 
Since you brought up what happened in Valhalla I am going to put in my 2 cents. You mention why not call Fairview or White Plains. This happens constantly especially in districts which volunteer/career departments border each other. Why should Valhalla call Fairview? If Fairview had a fire would they call Valhalla even if it was 1 block outside of the Valhalla fire district? The answer is no. Rather, Valhalla stands by in Fairview headquarters (this is a fact). So, I don't blame Valhalla for having West Harrison being next up on their card.
 
It is very evident and happens constantly, another example being when Greenville had a fire that was 3 blocks out of the Ardsley fire district that went to a multiple alarm. Some of the departments that responded - Larchmont, White Plains, New Rochelle, Pelham. Not to mention, Eastchester and Pelham Manor stood by in Greenville headquarters. Need I say how ridiculous that is? I can name about 5-10 departments off the top of my head that are closer.

Sounds like to me that this incident was appropriately handle and no more criticism should be made.  This seems like a isolated incident that required a special resource and that was requested and responded and handle it as needed,  end of story.
 
Those with criticisms, if they are so involved and have such expect opinions and knowledge ought to think about joining their local fire department if they want to help out so much.
 
Don't criticize those who decide and make your lives safe everyday by these proper decisions, but embrace that they are doing a job and doing it correct.
 

"Until you walk in the shoes of the incident commander you really don't have a clue about the initial size up and consultations that were occurring during the incident in question. "
 
Bingo!!!

WPFD right now has 134 firefighters on the line compared to 169 about 10 years ago. The rescue at headquarters is in service 24/7/365, and is one of only two fully staffed rescue companies in Westchester County, the other being Yonkers. Right now we run bare bones across the board, 3 men on each rig (engines, ladders & the rescue) with a fourth man going to the ladders or rescue depending on availability. That means if Ladder 34 is open and one man calls in sick, has a personal day or comp day/vacation, then the rig is shut down and the 2 remaining FF's (or LT) are sent to be the fourth man on either L-32, TL-6, or R-88 at the DC's discretion.  During the summer months especially, L-34 is shut down entirely and we ride 3 across the board, filling vacancies with OT. The city will not fill vacancies on 34 with OT, they brown it out, leaving the entire south side of the city without a ladder. The next nearest ladder is 32 and if that is tied up at an alarm, it's TL-6 which is about 10-12 minutes from L-34's first due area. If they were to shut down the rescue and man L-34, you'd just be shuffling responsibility mainly on L-32's shoulders which would pick up about 1,300 alarms per year on top of the 1,500 it already takes. 

I don't know much about this incident only what I read here. However it seems to me that this was not a bad call by the IC.
 
If I were on scene, and needed a specific piece of equipment, and I call the closest one (VA) but they are unable to deploy. I now have to find a suitable replacement. As all emergency scenes are time sensitive, the choice is start looking in case there is one closer or call for the one further away that I know exists (HFD), is in service and can deploy rapidly. Oddly enough what nobody is commenting on is that this resource was known because the VFD IC was an off duty career FF in HFD. This is something that is frowned upon my many here but it may have been a big factor in getting the appropriate response in a timely manner.
 
As for leaving a district diminished, that can happen at any time for any call. That is why there are plans in place for mutual and/or automatic aid. That is why there are contract provisions for OT callbacks. That is why there are run cards, no matter how they were devised.
 
As for letting departments pick who they want, I am generally against that. We just put considerable effort into redoing our tanker run card in Stamford. Up until a few years ago this was handled by the IC calling for individual departments. Now we have a list that includes ETA's and goes up to 20th due. As a dispatcher I should have the list of resources. An IC should be able to tell me he wants 5 tankers and know that I will get him the closest 5 available tankers. However the IC should not care what name is on the door.

FF1,
 
I want to thank you for your view on things.  Until you walk in the shoes of the incident commander you really don't have a clue about the initial size up and consultations that were occurring during the incident in question. 
 
Your view on dispatch and consolidation is not far off, but very naive.  Dispatchers don't decide who responds to any given jurisdiction.  They follow the CAD or pre-established policies for the departments they serve.  There is at least one validated consolidation study available (south of RT 287), however until home rule in NYS is abolished nothing will change.
 
There is a Westchester County Special Operations Task Force that involves 12 career departments, and Hartsdale is one of those member agencies. E170 is an asset that is assigned to Squad 6 and is normally staffed with no less than three hazmat techs.  E170 was sent as a single resource of a larger task force unit and being staffed with four techs could operate safely and as an asset for the IC.  A single member in a command car might have been considered, but obviously the HFD command staff didn't agree. 
 
Mutual aid in the Town of Greenburgh occurs so that adequate personnel arrive on the scene in a timely manner and have the ability to go to work without delay.  If you need more information why not ask the fire chief's directly. Their emails and phone numbers are published.