16fire5

Would Medevac really have been necessary in this situation? According to google maps its 21 minutes from that corner to the med center. Were there any circumstances that required it?

A valid question. When you take into account the time spent transferring a patient to the helicopter crew and their scene time ground transport is probably faster.

Depends, is your family member the one on the other side? I agree we shouldn't put ourselves in this kind of danger during training but this is another tool in the toolbox when it hits the fan. While not directly related to this picture or any posts I think the shift in the order of life safety in the fire service over the past few years is disheartening.The risk benefit analysis is something we should always be using but shouldn't use it as a crutch to not do our jobs. Lt. Ray McCormack said it best several years ago in his FDIC keynote speech, "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." If you haven't heard the speech give it a listen, really sums it up. Here is a great read just posted yesterday http://www.backstepfirefighter.com/2014/08/20/women-and-children-first-by-dave-leblanc/ I am sure I will take a beating for this but again I am not promoting any unsafe acts or "John Wayne time", just think we need to take a step back and see what our "progression" looks like from the eyes of the public.

I'll bite. I really don't correlate those who propose safe fireground practices with writing off civilians. Most fire service leaders who advocate these changes are doing their jobs and looking to protect their members. The thought that our attempt to be safe on the fireground is killing or going to kill more civilians in fires is backed up by what? They are dying because they don't have working smoke detectors. The fact is the vast majority of fireground traumatic fatalities occur when there was no legitimate civilian life hazard. Are there savable civilians who die in fires? Probably but I doubt the cause is a safety mindset in the fire service. If we could get some departments on scene faster and train all our members to be on their A game when they get off the rig we'd be better serving the civilians that count on us. When the homeowner meets you on the lawn and says everyone is out should get treated differently then when you pull up and 3AM and no one meets you. Those the preach things like aggressive search regardless of intelligence gathered during size-up are pandering to the group that wants to hear that. I get it we all want be aggressive and fight fires but being a professional is not about doing want we want to do but doing what we should be do.

So we always hear about this thing called a risk benefit analysis. Apparently most people don't know what it is or don't do them. You should be doing it in your head quickly all the time.

So is this risk worth the benefit?

I'm not a train fan but my little guy is so we do a lot of electronic watching.

I believe the urbanization referred to in the article is not that the suburbs and rural areas are becoming more populated. The latest census has showed that more people are choosing to live in urban areas. A higher percentage of the population now lives in cites and rural areas are slowly dying. This becomes a real challenge for volunteer departments since most of these rural places will never be able to support career staff. The studies also show that the average age of volunteers is getting older. While the article says most places are protected by volunteer departments that is very misleading. That may be true if we look at land area and the sheer number of volunteer departments there are. The fact is around 70% of the population is protected by career firefighters who make up 30% of the American fire service. This is not a paid vs. volly issue it's facts. If you have 30% of the firefighters doing 70% of the workload they are going to be more proficient and their workload is probably higher per capita anyway due to urban challenges.

I think the fact that a very likeable celebrity so accomplished took his own life actually draws awareness to the problem. I hear people say "man he had everything why would he do that?". They obviously have no clue what is up.

When you say "There are some cruel people in our business who enjoy seeing their peers suffer." I really don't believe that mindset is pervasive in emergency services anymore than general public in fact most people in emergency services have very big hearts. I think for the most part most firefighters want to help their brothers (and sisters too). The complexity is really differentiating the signs of someone that's just down from someone who is an honest danger to themselves.

The parade of cars with the lights on has been going on all summer. So has impact with a car from every precinct coming to help ones being plagued by the shootings. Also flooding these areas with rookies. I'm surprised it's taken this long to make the papers. If the bad guys know they can carry their guns with no fear of being searched guess what? They are going to carry their guns.

As bad as this sounds I have faith that Sleepy Hollow's loss will be another department's big gain and this guy will land on his feet maybe someplace not so sleepy.

Until then drill on/after runs in the buildings in your response area. This way you see more than one setup. You get to know where they are located and the different things you do for each one.

Forgive my ignorance but why is a paramedic riding BLS calls? Does Peekskill EMS utilize paid staff?

You are trying to compare an ADULT ONLY retirement community in sunny Florida to a congested NY county. You say you spent 30+ years as a FDNR dispatcher? You must know the area Eastchester FD serves. Do you think that 2 firefighters on a rig is a waste of money? I caught a fire the other nite on the 8th floor of a senior citizen apartment. 2 Eng. 1 Ladder and my Duty car : TOTAL 8 MEN. You pay low taxes because the Villages doesn't have to build or run SCHOOLS! Plus the SCAB labor of Rural Metro doesn't provide pensions to it's workers. I'm sure you retired in either Tier 1 or 2 of the NYS Pension system and every month you cash your check. Yet you defend Rural Metro and speak of wasteful spending and "Breaking the Bank". Shame on you, sir.

I agree it's not an apples to apples comparison. I'm not 100% sure what he's talking abut but The Villages has a large stand alone department that is not run by Rural Metro and is an IAFF local, I believe the same is true for the County Fire Rescue. Rural/Metro replaced the county EMS organization after they went under a few years ago. As for Rural Metro pursuing large municipal fire contracts that does not appear to be the case. The company nearly went under itself. Their largest flagship operation (Scottsdale, AZ) became a municipal department.

It appears that it will be the 3rd in line civilian position. Fire Commissioner, 1st Deputy, and then Chief of Staff. If the rumors are correct that Bob Turner will be 1st Deputy and Sweeney will be Chief of Staff you will have 3 very senior veteran fire officers as the top 3 civilians in HQ.

Yes he has resigned going back to FDNY to be #3. The heat in Yonkers was more than he could bear.

Understood you're glad to see him go and we're glad to have him back.

A pair of Ladder Company Chauffeurs deserve an atta boy to for getting the rigs in those positions. Not only VEIS but real nice to have as a means of egress when aggressive searches are underway. Fireproof projects=no fire escapes.

City vs. Upstate.....

So I was an upstate guy and then became an FDNY guy so I have a unique perspective. First everyone's stories are anecdotal stories about tiny samplings so taking any of the generalizations to heart is silly. QTIP might be appropriate here.

Hurst Tool. We've come a long way I guess. Let's also remember there are more than 140 ladder companies with tools and due to differences in training and actual experience results will vary. I was lucky when I was a firefighter we seemed to go to nightly car fires (anyone else remember that?) Sanitation would tag the car and we would come back the next day and practice with the tool. It was great training. Now we go to junk yards pretty much whenever we want and drill.

Here's a basic difference that hasn't been mentioned. Career Chief's academy vs. FDNY. In Westchester the class is made up of multiple departments so almost every topic is generalized because of the multitude of staffing and operational differences. For the FDNY everyone there is able to be ingrained with our procedures and way of doing business. We have the ability to be so much more specific. It's a big advantage. I'm sure since Yonkers does their own academies they realize the same benefits. For the most part my current colleagues have absolutely no concept how the rest of the world operates north of the city line.

To answer the original question there is a Captain's Development Course that was originally 2 weeks, was 4 by the time I went, and might now be up to 5. About a week of it focuses on the job of Captain and the rest is all about preparing Captains to be Acting Battalion Chiefs.

The Battalion Chief's command course is now 8 or 9 weeks. There is a tremendous amount of material presented on a great number of topics.

There's a class for Deputies. It's relatively new and I'm not sure the length.

Most testing and real life fire ground experience points towards UHF simplex analog for fire ground tactical communications.

I have had some similar conversations right in my own state. I have no problem with elections as long as there are more qualifications than a pulse to hold office. I was just talking the other day with a friend who is an EMS chief in NJ. She is trying to loosen up some restrictions on who can serve as Chief because of an odd conflict in between the number of officers and the requirements to have held lower ofices. Basically unless everyone moves up regardless of qualifications, nobody will ever be able to replace her as Chief. I have seen departments that put in lots of training requirements and then end up with no one who can meet them. So one has to strike a sensible balance.

I don't know of any police departments ore highway departments that elect their supervisors. In one department that I collaborated with on some work with they had qualifications (which were not over the top), a written test (which I think was basic), scenarios, and interview. They used neighboring chiefs to grade scenarios and interviews. Seemed to be a very fair process. But a big difference is they're not changing things up every year. It didn't hurt that the chief has been there for a long time and is a strong extremely qualified leader.

One: They hang tough, stand firm and do their jobs, steadfastly working to build a better department from within, one more concerned with firematics than social activities

Two: They move on to another department more in tune with their own personal training and duty philosophies and thereafter they flourish

Three; They tuck their tails between their legs and quit

I respect your honest answer to my question. For me I have only ever and would only ever volunteer in the town I live in.

The standard way a volunteer fire department is run here in the north east is antiquated and broken. Too often operations is a secondary priority.

I was at a conference a few years ago in the mid west and I was talking to some fire chiefs and one was saying to the group "did you know there are some places that still have elections to decide who's chief?" I had to laugh because are there any volunteer department's in New York that don't do it that way?

Don't mistake me for a career firefighter who love to bash volunteers. I am not a career fire fighter and have never been one. I spent 10 years in the volunteer fire service as a Firefighter, Lieutenant, and Captain and quit because I believe that the volunteer fire service is a façade and a waste of taxpayer dollars where members are more concerned with social functions than they are with training and firematics.

What happens to members in these departments that try to concern themselves mostly with training and operations and don't attend parades?

The problem with the SCBA facepieces was not that there was an issue of inferior workmanship. After a number of LODDs and serious injuries NIST did some investigation and determined that the tests that a facepiece required to pass NFPA certification were inferior to those that the rest of the PPE needed to pass. After some some hard work by NIST and their work with the NFPA committee the most recent SCBA standard (1981-2013) greatly increases the performance requirements of SCBA. All facepieces now being sold are compliant with the standard. The IAFC issued an alert on the subject a few years ago and recommended that fire departments budget to replace facepieces upon adoption of the new standard. I know some have done so.

Does this have anything to do with the most recent LODDs? Only time will tell.

What must be remembered is that even with the advancements in PPE in the last 40 years if you are in a flashover with even the best PPE you have less than 20 seconds. Gear is so good now that firefighters that have found themselves in some of these "flow-path" incidents have actually received fatal burn injuries inside their gear that did not degrade. The true weak link in the whole ensemble is the human inside the gear.

My personal opinion is our best defense is the smart firefighter that is able to understand the situation and match the strategy and tactics they employ with the situation they find.

Sorry if I sound like a broken record.

Yeah happy because of the overtime they create!

Technically no because KME is responsible for the rigs showing up that suck under the 5 year warranty.

FDNY is very happy with the new KME's

This is direct from a close friend who is a FDNY mechanic with

26 years on the job.

No they are not.

As for facts I believe all the requirements for professional firefighters in NYS kick in if you department employs 6 or more staff. If less no 229, no 100 hours in service ect. There's even some paid drivers left in the state meaning that's their civil service title. The long island issue is separate since they have civil service employees in titles like janitor being used as career staff.

Here's my attempt at constructive criticism which I believe you open yourself up to when you post it for the world to see.

I have learned more about fire behavior in the last 5 years than in the 15 before that and I know everyone has not gotten there yet but we're working on it.

The fire was ventilation limited on arrival. I would have closed the front door until I was ready to enter. It would have limited the air the fire was getting.

Don't change the nozzle just make sure you have a straight stream.

I had no issue with the little hit they gave it from the outside it has the potential to make the push easier. That's all that was needed 10 seconds and then go in.

Use a 2 1/2 if you're not going in. Stick with the 1.75 if you will be going inside it's all about speed and maneuverability.

When there's one person in charge of the line it works better than getting advice from a few people.

You can become much faster and proficient with drilling. Practice pulling up stretching a line, masking up, and having water in 2 minutes or less.